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this is lame...jk!!!!

sweet. what else does pramit have up his sleeves?

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Although I don't think horse racing is barbaric, and I tried horse meat once over seas lol, I think of the two the way they put the horses down is more barbaric.
EERS_1_Fan

Head of South East Tribe MMAFIA
MMABRAT, CaptnCrunch, and Michael are all going to start training in the devils MMA lol

yeah, you don't see fighters getting euthanized in the cage because they broke something...

how was that horse meat? i heard about that...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Anyone have any stats on how many horses die each year directly related to a race?

who voted for mma? please identify yourself.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

it's about a thousand horses.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

7 horses died in 9 weeks according to this guy...(from last year)

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_horse/ALL/1483//

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

I voted for MMA. I don't think either is barbaric but if I had to choose I'd go MMA because it's human on human.

-The Captain

underwater basket weaving should have been put in to please eers...

fighters can heal from their injuries, horses can't.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

And, this is just one racetrack or one region. Throughout the world, I can't imagine how many there must be. Plus, I'd bet there are deaths in training on top of race-related deaths...

Right but they aren't humans, what value does a horse have alive?

I'm not trying to come off harsh at all. I think horse racing is wrong and cruel to the animals. I guess my feelings are it's more barbaric because it's human on human and the winner is the one who puts the other one through more pain. Horses are whipped to run as fast as they can and make money for the owners.

-The Captain

Tastes about like goat meat And I agree under water basket weaving is a demanding sport

EERS_1_Fan

Head of South East Tribe MMAFIA
MMABRAT, CaptnCrunch, and Michael are all going to start training in the devils MMA lol

people are insane....i think/know car racing is a million times more dangerous than MMA but you rarely ever hear people complaining. regardless of what you think of horse racing, there are plenty of sports that are more dangerous than MMA.

According to this article it's about 1.5/1000 starts - or 2 per day. She doesnt cite her source, but seems to be a fan of horse racing so I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/03/AR200805...

I found some outrageous numbers over at PETA's website... but I dont trust thier numbers to be unbiased.

Now the other brutal part of it is the treatment of the Jockeys... It's interesting there is a connection to MMA and Jockeys through Jens Pulver... the stories he tells about his dads (who was a jockey) abuse of drugs and alcohol apparently are the norm for Jockeys. How many riders per year are killed? Here is a little snidbit of an article from 2004:

http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/articles/041_accidents.htm
"...From 1993 through 1996, the study found that U.S. jockeys suffered 6,545 injuries serious enough for treatment. Since 1940, there have been 144 jockey deaths in North America according to the Guild."

And the abuse I found this article about one of the better jockeys of the modern era:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E1D6163EF936A25756C0A...

"In the past five years, state racing commissions around the country have investigated and taken action against at least 160 jockeys for alcohol or drug abuse. There are roughly 900 licensed jockeys in the United States, although not all of them are active at any given time."

160/900 is about 18%... could you imagine the uproar if 18% 36 (36/200) of the UFC fighters were facing criminal charges for drug and/or alcohol abuse?

Final ascertion... Horse Racing is more barbaric/brutal for both the horses and the jockeys than MMA is for the fighters.

its because jokeys are about 4 feet tall and weigh 80 pounds...all these guys were the losers in their high schools and colleges so all they do is drink and abuse drugs to make up for getting made fun of so much.

Fascinating Sixtus. A whole new dimension -- the sport is brutal for jockeys as well... wow...

BTW, Inside MMA had a jockey -- Gary Stephens -- on a couple of weeks ago. Not sure why except that maybe he's a famous fan of MMA...If jockeys are indeed famous...

....so they get on giant horses so they can feel better about themselves...and then they kill the one friend they ever had in their life because it broke it's leg, and they blame themselves so they drink and abuse drugs even more...and then a new horse comes the next day and the cycle repeats itself before they themselves are trampled by the very same horses they euthanize.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

We cant ignore the barbaric lifestyle the Jockey has to live (extreme weight cutting, drug abuse, etc) and the physical risk they put to thier bodies in racing when comparing HR to MMA. I am arguing this half-jokingly but also half-serious.

When the head of CBS makes a statement about MMA on network TV being socially irresponsible, I have to take exception and look at what sorts of things he would rather put on tv? Now I knwo the Derby was on NBC, but I have to beleive that CBS probably bidded on this deal and tried to get it. And I watched... it's fun. I honestly have nothing against the sport. I like all forms of competition, and having grown up on a ranch, going to a lot of bull riding shows, I can say from seeing those bulls first hand, they LOVE to perform. I have never seen a horse race live, but I am sure these horses LOVE to race - thats what they have been bred and trained to do... I just think it's funny how one sport gets a pass and another does not.

see how fun this poll posting is! Great job Ticker for adding it!!

i like bull riding...(watching it)

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Sixtus, Thanks for the suggestion. I had it ready to go but didn't think it would generate this sort of participation. It's a keeper for sure...

MMA gets all the crap for a few simple reasons.
1. People think its a new sport so they want to snuff it out, if they would do a little research they would figure out it has been around longer than every single sport other than wrestling, it just wasn't called MMA. Think about it if you was wrestling someone, then busted them in the mouth (MMA)!
2. they, for some silly reason think that if you know a cut or ko is coming it is worse? I would much rather know something is comeing than get blindsided, like in a football game.

EERS_1_Fan

Head of South East Tribe MMAFIA
MMABRAT, CaptnCrunch, and Michael are all going to start training in the devils MMA lol

Good points Sixtus, if the jockeys are getting injured as well than that sheds a new light into it. I guess where I still stand on the fence is intent. The intent of the UFC is to hurt someone. The intent of horse racing is not for the jockeys to get hurt but unforuntately it happens.

Also if these guys are drug/alcohol abusers I do not attribute that to the sport. If the sport is causing them that much pain and stress that they need to turn to drugs/alcohol than leave the sport. I have no sympathy for drug/alcohol abusers.

-The Captain

getting blindsided in football sucks! ask chad clifton!

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Sixtus, I'm pretty sure a jockey doesn't "have to" get hooked onto drugs and alcohol.

-The Captain

it's in the rulebook captain. in order for jockeys to ride they MUST be addicted to booze and drugs.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

All I can say is this: Although BJ Penn worked Joe Daddy over, And Babalu made a mess of Heath I'm sure there was not alot of people crying. But when that poor horse was put to sleep I bet there was thousands of people who were choked up. So that should say it all!

MMABrat
Run Forest Run

phoenix - I like watching bull riding too... but I am not brave (aka stupid) enough to actually ever get on the back of one of those monsterous beasts. Tried riding a calf once when I was a kid at a bull riding show... it didnt end well for me.

It all comes down to the percieved amount of violence I think. There is no percieved violence in horse racing... or in soccer or most other sports regardless of how many more injuries are likely to occur. Football is a different story, but they cover everyone up so we done SEE thier injuries... very rarely do you ever see someone's cut in football. And you can't SEE a concussion. If they were old school 'leatherhead' style... although there would probably be less SERIOUS injuries, the injuries would be more obvious, but I doubt you would see the massive impact collisions we get today - where the injuries become less obvious, but potentially more serious.

Who cares about a brain injury from multiple concussions and being sent back in the game? Happens in football all the time... cant see the injury so we dont mind as much.

i don't like in other countries where they kill the bulls though. that's some stupid stuff...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

TBC - you're right... I should have worded that differently. No one HAS TO get hooked on drugs or alcohol - or take steroids, HGH, etc. Personal responsibility comes to play and they SHOULD be held accountable for THIER decision.

My point was in looking at how destructive the average fighters life style is to the average jockeys... if they had the same amount of deaths and as high of drug suspension/reprimand rates in MMA as in horse racing, then MMA would be even further put through the grinder by the mainstream media.

BTW - I am about 2/3 through 'A Fighter's Heart' by Sam Sheridan... I am really enjoying it. Great look at the life of a fighter... So far I would reccomend it to anyone who is interested in the struggles of living and training to be a fighter.

it was between chucks book or that one...i picked chucks book. it takes me forever to finish reading a book...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Ya phoenix.. I am with you on that. I dont like bull fighting at all. Seems really pointless. I always get a little chuckle when I see (watching 'craziest videos ever' type shows) that one fighter get the horn up the.... a little poetic justice if you ask me.

Chuck's book was a good one he is a real life Forest Gump LOL! I have a review on it I'm not sure why I never posted it? I should fine tune it and post it!

MMABrat
Run Forest Run

whoever the bulls tramples deserves it...you can not feel sorry for the idiots who are killing the bull slowly by stabbing it...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Ya I am looking forward to (eventually) reading Chucks book... Sam's (paperback) was on sale at the bookstore airport before I got on a flight this weekend. I burned through the 2/3 just waiting at the airport and sitting on the plane - had a hard time putting it down. I wish I had as much ambition and guile as that guy... just to pick up and go live in Thailand or Brazil and live at the gym for 6mos to a year at a time to focus on training (and writing)... awsome.

How do you like Chucks book so far?

you should...you read a lot faster than me, i haven't even finished matt hughes's book...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

chucks book is awesome. it's way better than huhges book. chuck goes more in detail about everything, i'm at the point where he beat belfort for the first time. i say about 10 more dumps or so and i'll be done reading it. it's got nice short chapters too, which is a plus for me because i can never sit down long enough for a gigantic chapter and read for more than 30 minutes...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Apparently Sam has written a lot for magazines such as Mens Health Journal (its how he financed a lot of his adventures) so I think he gets the mentality of the people who read him (or at least that which he writes well for)... his chapters are short, easy to read and well written for guys like me with shorter attention spans focusing on the things he readers would be likely be interested in. It's not a difficult read by any stretch and he is real.

From horse racing to Jockey debates to drug abuse and now on to book reviews... how did we get here?

we always end up on a different topic for some reason...and we ended up here because reading is fun and knowledge is power!! long live school house rocks!

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

Are you people kidding me??? How is horse racing more barbaric??? You people are nuts! haha

the real question is, are you nuts?

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family
ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83

A poor defenseless animal laying there as its life is being taken from it in an arena. Seems a lot like roman times to me. I ride horses myself every once in a while but to dig your feet in there sides and treat them so cruelty is just pathetic!
MMABrat
Run Forest Run

Haha I love it! Perhaps Fox News will run a special on whether MMA is more 'barbaric' than Horse Racing!?!?

We should go find a horse racing blog and go post... creat a controversy...