Fight Ticker Exclusive: Q&A with Jeff Wadlow, director of 'Never Back Down'

Posted March 10th, 2008 by Fight Ticker

By Pramit Mohapatra

A couple of months ago, I watched a trailer for the movie Never Back Down (which comes out in theaters this week) and wrote on my Baltimoresun.com blog that I wouldn’t pay movie theater prices to watch it. Instead, I wrote, I would wait for the movie to come out on DVD. Why? Because Never Back Down didn’t look like the sort of film aimed at someone like me in his early thirties. It looked more like the OC meets MMA.

It turns out one of the readers of that blog entry was none other than Jeff Wadlow, the director of the movie. Wadlow emailed me and offered to pay out of his pocket for both my ticket and my wife’s ticket for seats on opening day. I respectfully declined, but I was impressed that Wadlow felt strongly enough to make such an offer.

I then offered Wadlow the opportunity to enter the lion’s den that is the passionate MMA community and do an interview with me about the movie. Wadlow accepted without hesitation.

I don’t know Wadlow personally and I can’t speak to his motivations, but for me these two actions embody the ideal of never backing down. Wadlow confronted me about my entry and then didn’t run away from the opportunity to speak directly to MMA fans, who very well could make up a large portion of the viewing audience for this flick. While the jury is still out on the movie, Wadlow makes a compelling case in this interview to at least give it a chance. Even if he hadn’t made that case, I respected his actions enough to give it a shot in the theater anyway.

What follows is a frank and expansive interview with Wadlow, conducted by e-mail this past week.

Fight Ticker: When did you first become interested in mixed martial arts?

Jeff Wadlow: I was a casual fan of the sport for years, but I really didn't immerse myself in it until I decided to make the movie.

Fight Ticker: Why did you decide to make Never Back Down?

Wadlow: I wanted to make the movie for two reasons... one, I was really attracted to the story and the central theme... that everyone has their fight. Whether it's the class you’re trying to pass, the family you’re trying to hold together, or me, doing my best to make this movie -- everyone has their battle. The other reason I wanted to make the movie, was more of a film-geek reason... I wanted to shoot a fight movie in a way you've never seen a fight movie shot before. I wanted to put you in the fight, so that even when the guys are on the ground, you can still see all the details and feel like you're in the fight with them. I also wanted to capture the vibe of being at a live event... the rawness and the energy. I always shot the fights both ways... like a live event with multiple cameras, running the fight front to back -- and then inside the ring, as close to the action as possible.

Fight Ticker: What can moviegoers expect from the movie?

Wadlow: First and foremost, I want people to have fun. I hope they like our characters and will enjoy spending two hours with them. For me, that's the most important attribute of an enjoyable film... do I care about the characters? 'Cause if you don't care about the characters it doesn't matter how good the car chases are, how real the wooly mammoths look, or how intense the fights are -- you just check out.

And oh yeah... they can expect to see some really intense, visceral fights. Our fight team worked on 300, Fight Club, and the Bourne movies, and they don't disappoint. They are also huge MMA fans, who have tons of amateur and professional fight experience of their own.

Fight Ticker: Who is your target audience?

Wadlow: Our target audience is anyone who's had to struggle in their life and wants to see someone work hard and persevere. And anyone who wants to see some really intense fights.... have I mentioned the fights? 'Cause there are fights in our movie. Lots of them.

Fight Ticker: Are you aiming this at hardcore MMA fans or to mainstream America to enlighten them about MMA?

Wadlow: I'm glad you brought this up, because I think it's really important to address this issue... Never Back Down is not about the sport of MMA, it's about the culture of fighting. The sport of MMA is filled with professionals who take their jobs very seriously and have dedicated their lives to the discipline. Our movie is about the culture of fighting and a character who has to make a choice.

Like just about everything is this world, the culture of fighting has a yin and a yang, a positive side and a negative side. The positive side is personified in our film by the character of Jean Roqua, played by Djimon Hounsou. He is a teacher and he represents the idea of everyday people (not professional fighters) training in a gym, in a disciplined, supervised setting. His students learn about dedication, hard-work, and responsibility by practicing MMA. He has one rule -- "no fighting outside the gym."

The negative side of the culture of fighting is represented in our movie by the character of Ryan McCarthy, played by Cam Gigandet. Whether it's at a party or a backyard brawl that’s going to be posted on the web, Ryan fights in an unsupervised setting solely for the adoration of his peers. He is [a] bad guy and we vilify him for his actions.

And then there's our main character... Jake Tyler, played by Sean Faris. He's an angry young man who has to make a choice between these two worlds. While we could have taken the "safe" path, and come straight out and said "fighting is bad," I think we took a more realistic approach that will hopefully have more of an impact than any super-sanitized point of view. It's basically the notion that no one can tell you when you should stand and fight and when you should walk away... it's on you to decide what's worth fighting for, and no matter the consequences it's your responsibility to deal with them. That's what it means to be an adult, and I think it's that moment when our main character stops being a boy and becomes a man.

So I guess the short answer to your question is we are neither aiming this at hardcore MMA fans nor mainstream America with an agenda to introduce them to MMA, we are just trying to tell a story about a character that has to make a choice, which has more to do with growing up than anything else.

Fight Ticker: What did your actors do to prepare for the fight scenes?

Wadlow: We cast our actors a full nine weeks before production and immediately put them into training six days a week. They learned MMA from pros like Erik Paulson and stunt fighting from Damon Caro and Jonathan Eusabio. They were doing weight training, physical therapy, and meeting regularly with nutritionists. They worked so hard that I think they thought production would be a vacation compared to prep... they were wrong.

Fight Ticker: Have you ever trained in MMA or a martial art?

Wadlow: You know I was so excited to train when I first read the script that I said to my girlfriend (rather naively) that if I get this movie, "I'm totally going to get my black belt." Once I started researching the sport, and learning about the time, dedication, and athleticism it takes to train, I realized I was kidding myself given the time I had to commit to actually making movie. So I guess you could say I have my black belt in directing MMA fight scenes now... once the movie comes out, I'd love to spend some time in the gym, though I doubt I'll ever get that black belt. The guys who can commit that much of themselves to the sport... let's just say, they're exceptional in a way I'll never be.

Fight Ticker: Why did you decide to cast Sean Faris in the lead role?

Wadlow: Sean brings an incredible accessibility to the role. In the beginning of the film, Jake's in a bad place and he's mad at the world. Every actor who came in played the role as guarded and sullen, but it was Sean who nailed the part because he was just so open. You got the feeling that no matter how hard the world smacked him in the mouth, he was going to just get back up and keep coming... he was just that pissed off. It was great, because it served the story, but it also allowed the audience to root for him, even if he's got anger issues early in the film.

Fight Ticker: Was there something about MMA that you learned that surprised you in making this movie?

Wadlow: I was not so much "surprised," as totally captivated by the amount of strategy that goes into an MMA fight. I think most folks at first perceive the mixed use of tactics as brutal, but it just takes a little understanding to suddenly see the strategic aspects of the sport. Once I really started to see that stuff, I fell in love with it. Sports Illustrated nailed it in their cover story, when they referred to MMA as a "hyper-real chess match."

Fight Ticker: What do you think the future holds for the sport?

Wadlow: I think that it is the future. Boxing is not really growing like it used to, because it's becoming a part [of] MMA. I think all the young talented fighters who are coming up right now, who would have gone into boxing before, are now going into MMA. I wouldn't be surprised if fifty years from now, boxing has become more of a demo-type event, and MMA is the real mainstream combat sport.

Fight Ticker: Do you think MMA movies will become their own genre much like kung fu flicks back in the day?

Wadlow: Maybe. It's hard to say. For me, an "MMA movie" can mean two very different things. It could be a sports movie, like Rocky or Friday Night Lights, with the central focus being on athletes who compete in the sport of MMA; or it could be a movie with a lot of fighting, like Fight Club or the Bourne films, where the central focus is life-or-death action and the style of the hand-to-hand combat is MMA. In my opinion, to lump those two very different kinds of films into one "MMA genre" would be a mistake.

Fight Ticker: Did you ever encounter any resistance from industry types or advocacy groups in making this movie?

Wadlow: Of course we asked ourselves, "are we glorifying violence with this film?" I certainly don't want to be the kind of filmmaker who makes movies that exploit and glorify anything that makes the world a worse place. But at the same time, the human experience is complicated, and if I had made a super-sanitized, "after school special" version of this film, any kind of message about violence would have just fallen on deaf ears. Ultimately, as I mentioned above, we decided to make a movie that explored both the pros and the cons of each side of [the] fight culture... the positive side, as represented by Djimon Hounsou's character Roqua, which involves training in a gym in a supervised setting, and the negative side, as represented by Cam Gigandet's character Ryan, which involves fighting for fun in unsupervised settings. Ultimately it's up to our main character, Jake, played by Sean Faris to choose... and we don't make the choice easy for him. I hope people see this film and they understand that MMA can be a positive outlet, but more importantly, any negativity out there about MMA really has less to do with the "fighting" and much more to do with the people who are doing it.

Fight Ticker: The title "Never Back Down" is an interesting one. I see it as appropriate for the MMA movement, which has constantly been under attack but has refused to die and is now on the verge of breaking out. Why did you choose it?

Wadlow: "Never Back Down" was a line that the head of production at the studio, Erik Feig, came up with. I think he wanted to use it as a tag line for the movie, but I got Djimon to say it while the cameras were rolling (it was never scripted), and he did -- right before the camera ran out of film! Like, to the frame! Fortunately we just barely got it, and if you've read this far into the interview you've probably seen the trailer and you know the exact moment I'm talking about. Soon it just became our mantra for both the story and the production, and as the film grew and changed, we realized that it had to be the title (the old title was "Get Some," which I was never a fan of -- sure, MMA fans would get the reference, but I was worried the rest of the world would think the movie was a porno.)

I think Never Back Down is appropriate for the MMA movement because fans of the sport love it, and no matter the misconceptions, they never gave up on it. It was important to them, and they fought for its acceptance. I think that's a perfect example of "never backing down," because in life, sometimes you've got to fight for what you believe in.

(Photo of Jeff Wadlow (l) and Djimon Hounsou courtesy of Summit Entertainment.)

Good read! Thanks for

On March 10th, 2008 Sixtus says:

Good read! Thanks for getting that interview. A couple of things jump out to me...

First I'm glad to hear they had guys like Erik Paulson training the actors! That should keep it semi-realistic. The guy is a legend and often (unfairly) gets forgotten when talking about all-time MMA greats.

I also appreciate his candor about being arrogant enough to think that he could wake up one morning and say, "I'm totally going to get my black-belt" only to realize it's not that easy. Besides... black belt in what? Is there a particular martial art the movie focuses on more than another?

I still doubt I will go see this movie as it confirmed for me it's really a high school drama with a fight-theme to it. Hopefully it does well enough for someoen else to be encouraged to produce a true MMA film... perhaps do a true-story about a particular gym or MMA legend...

this movie is going to

On March 10th, 2008 PapaBalsamo says:

this movie is going to suck...but good interview prahmit

another title people might

On March 10th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

another title people might think it's a porno: Let's Bang

good interview pramit. those were good questions to ask. i'm more concerned about the acting, and i'm sure the fight scenes will be awesome.

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

CONGRATULATIONS! Great job

On March 10th, 2008 MMAcademics says:

CONGRATULATIONS! Great job FightTicker and Pramit for getting this very important and timely interview. I'm glad the issue of MMA as it relates to street fighting was raised. I have to read that section of the interview a few more times to see how Jeff Wadlow really feels. I know he said he didn't want to make a de-sanitized after-school special. On the other hand, will Never Back Down ultimately associate MMA as part of the "culture of fighting" that ensconces street violence? I guess I'll have to see it to make a complete assessment.

Again, great job Pramit. FightTicker is only a few weeks old. Let's hope a much broader range of the MMA community can get directed to this interview.

Check us out at Fighting for Acceptance: Mixed Martial Artists and Violence in American Society!

Or buy Fighting for Acceptance through Barnes & Noble by clicking here

Good interview...for me I

On March 10th, 2008 pitt dawg says:

Good interview...for me I truly believe the fight scenes will be great in this movie but without good acting it`ll be another movie with good looking people aimed at a teenage audience. I`ll check it out down the road. There`s a summer movie called "RedBelt" costaring Randy Couture that look interesting.

i gotta say i think it's

On March 11th, 2008 mmafanatic says:

i gotta say i think it's cool this movie deals with thematic/moral issues about fighting and why people fight. there have been a million sports movies and there will probably be a million more about mma (redbelt.) this movie looks like it's about real people not just about professional athletes. ok, i'll admit the blond guy from the OC doesn't look like a real person... but i'm still going to see this movie on friday when it comes out. gotta at least give this director some credit for putting some thought into it . there's no way it's worse than 10,000 BC...nice interview.

is that you nflfan? i hate

On March 11th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

is that you nflfan?

i hate shows like the OC...and this movie reminded me of them. it might be a good movie, but when i see a preview and say, "It's the OC, only they know kung fu."

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

Loved the interview! And it

On March 11th, 2008 Moviewannabe says:

Loved the interview! And it sounds like the fights are going to be amazing, especially with Erik Paulson teaching the guys a thing or two about MMA. I'm seeing this thing on Friday for sure!

Surprisingly solid

On March 11th, 2008 threepop says:

Surprisingly solid interview.

I saw the movie at a free screening last week and actually thought it was good. My biggest beef going in was that the fighting would be all Hollywood-ized - too fast cutting, stand-ins for the actors, lame moves in slo-mo - but it wasn't. The fights were obviously choreographed to be as real as possible given the limited amount of skill that the actors could have attained in the weeks before shooting. Then again, good fighting is usually about getting back to basics. Yeah, the story is predictable, but who cares? I'm pretty sure this formula has been used hundreds of times before and if it's executed successfully it will always make a good experience for the audience.

I'm a 17-year practitioner of Kenpo and have over 10 years in Escrima and BJJ. I didn't feel offended or put off by the fighting in this movie. The technique, training and attitude of the fighters was valid and the actual shooting/editing of the scenes is really exciting. I sat in the eighth row and found myself grunting at the screen or saying "tap out!" out loud. It was cool.

Congrats to the director for getting in the ring with an extremely skeptical and passionate part of his audience. I think he was able to hold his own because he knows his film scores some solid points for MMA as a sport and a philosophy.

movie wannabe, is that you

On March 11th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

movie wannabe, is that you jeff wadlow?

i'm sure the fights will be great, atleast in this movie no ones arms are tied behind their back because the chose the wrong marble. whats the deal with that!...and didn't erik paulson beat up on those jackass guys a while back? or was that someone else?

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

I posted a link to your

On March 11th, 2008 Nate says:

I posted a link to your interview in our forum:

http://www.wicombatsports.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=29&f...

Appreciate it Nate.

On March 11th, 2008 Fight Ticker says:

Appreciate it Nate.

i will watch this movie...

On March 11th, 2008 thefightingduffmen says:

i will watch this movie... most likely on dvd.... still reminds me of step up meets mma.....

we need a rocky-esque mma movie!!!

www.myspace.com/theklubking

thefightingduffmen

On March 11th, 2008 Nate says:

thefightingduffmen wrote:
"we need a rocky-esque mma movie!!!"

starring Frank Shamrock as himself

mmamania.com Never Back

On March 12th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

mmamania.com

Never Back Down’ movie review
By: Adam Wagner

Never Back Down

I’m warning you all now: Slowly Back Down … the aisle, maniacs.

Last night I had the opportunity to attend a press screening of the MMA flick “Never Back Down,” which opens nationwide this Friday, March 14. Touch of the gloves to Austin O’Connor over at SteelSkins who provided me with the passes.

Let’s get right to it: This movie is abysmally derivative. It’s so formulaic and predictable, you’ll swear you wrote it!

And I also expect it to be a huuuuuuge hit thanks to the buying power of teenage girls (okay, and boys).

The plot is simple: A rebellious student at a new high school is lured into a world of underground fighting. Horribly embarrassed in front of the entire school, he seeks out a mentor in mixed martial arts to find his revenge.

Unintentional hilarity ensues.

Written by Chris Hauty — the mastermind who brought you his tour de force “Homeward Bound II: Lost in San Francisco” — and directed by Jeff Wadlow — the “triple threat” director/writer/actor who you might recognize as “Next Guy in Line #1” from “Pearl Harbor” (no, I’m not joking) — Never Back Down steals from every action movie aimed at teenagers ever made.

If you’re a fan of the Fast & the Furious franchise, the Karate Kid franchise, Top Gun, or any movie starring Dolph Lundgren, by Zeus, rush out and see this movie.

Die-hard fans of MMA, which at this point I’m assuming we all are, will likely hate this film. It too often attempts to serve as an introduction to the sport for moviegoers, rather than being a movie for knowledgeable MMA fans.

For example, during training the novice hero rushes in to engage and repeatedly gets caught in submissions. With each submission, the sensei calls out “Armbar!”; or “Triangle choke!”; or “Leg lock!” Die-hard fans need no introduction to these moves and will therefore find these scenes laughable.

But teenage girls who lust after guys with no shirts, and teenage boys who want to be those guys with no shirts, will certainly make this film this weekend’s box office sensation. Mark my unfortunate words.

Even the audience last night — who occasionally laughed at the movie (I even heard a few “Gay!” comments) — ended up applauding at the movie’s climax. I felt like I was at a “Rocky” premiere in Philly. Only with rich white kids.

You might argue that that’s because the average moviegoer is dumb … and I won’t stop you.

I imagine the pre-production meeting went something like this:

We need our hero to be a quick-tempered teenager who gets embarrassed by the school’s bad-ass bully and is forced to train in MMA to redeem himself … kinda like Karate Kid!

Check.

We need our bully to be a rich, bronzed pretty boy who throws parties so elaborate for a high school teenager that even P. Diddy would say, “Damn, I wish I was invited to that party!”

Check.

We need a love triangle that puts the bully’s girlfriend smack dab in the middle of things, just like … every movie!

Check.

We need a goofy, sincere sidekick to serve as comic relief.

Check.

We need a stoic sensei preferably played by a foreigner with an accent.

Check.

Now let’s call it Karate Kid Part V: Daniel-san Gets a Ground Game. Is that taken?

Not surprisingly, the story misses numerous opportunities to develop any depth of character and instead relies on storyboard clichés and stereotypes.

Depending on your age or your interest in teenage pop culture, you may or may not recognize some of these stereotypes, er, faces. The hero, Jake Tyler, is played by Sean Faris, who’s mostly played bit parts in a few low-end television dramas. Perhaps fittingly, Faris seems to be a graduate of the Tom Cruise School of Acting.

The bully, Ryan McDonald, is played by Cam Gigandet, probably best known for his stints as Kevin Volchok on “The O.C.” and as some schmuck on the “Young and the Restless.” Even better, Gigandet is an obvious graduate of the Brad Pitt School of Acting.

Who will win? The Tom Cruise wannabe or the Brad Pitt wannabe? For those of you playing at home, start the drinking games now! Every time you see an obvious steal from a Cruise or Pitt movie, you know what to do.

There are of course a few other faces. The love interest, Baja, as she’s called, is played by Amber Heard. Her backstory is that she was rescued from the depths of geekdom by Ryan when she first moved to the school. But now that Jake is here, she relates more to him.

Thus, the triangle.

The goofy sidekick, Max, is played by Evan Peters, who does a decent enough job, albeit for a clichéd part. Prior to this disaster, Peters played Jesse Varon on the short-lived television drama “Invasion.”

Aside from Peters, the only other actor I recognized is Djimon Hounsou (”Blood Diamond,” “Constantine,” “Gladiator,” “Amistad”), who plays Jean Roqua, the sensei who operates the gym out of which he also lives. Roqua tries to impart on Jake the usual bit of Dojo knowledge: the importance of breathing, never take a fight outside of the gym, etc.

All criticisms aside, the fight choreography was pretty decent, compared to a lot of fight films. I’ve read that both Faris and Gigandet trained six hours a day, six days a week for three months to prepare for this film, which seems about right given their performances.

The camera work wasn’t bad either, although I don’t anticipate that being a selling point for this film’s intended audience. There’s a few point-of-view shots during some fight sequences that are reportedly from “lipstick cameras” incorporated by Wadlow, the director. They aren’t great, but they aren’t overused either.

We all know this film is going to be used as a marketing gimmick for MMA, so we might as well get used to it now. In fact, in leaving the theater, I was handed a flyer for One Spirit Martial Arts Combat Training Center by two teenage students of the Gracie/BJJ gym.

I hadn’t heard of it, but UFC/PRIDE/Bodog/IFL veteran Aaron Riley (23-10-1), who last fought at the IFL 2007 Team Championship Finale in September 2007, is a full-time instructor there. It even offers free lessons to beginners. Not a bad deal for Northern Virginians, and the two students were actually pretty cool (and unimpressed with most of the movie’s fight sequences).

Alas, there are smart teenagers out there after all.

At the end of the day, I see this movie doing quite well at the box office and will probably spark two sequels. Hopefully one with Billy “Sweep the leg, Johnny!” Zabka.

...sorry jeff wadlow, cool fighting isn't enough to get me to watch this movie...
Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

I'll go watch it this

On March 12th, 2008 Fight Ticker says:

I'll go watch it this weekend on behalf of the FightTicker community. If it sucks, I'll let you know...

just get it over with

On March 12th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

just get it over with now...here's my prediction of pramits future post after he's seen NBD:

It sucked.

pramit

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

I think it has some great

On March 13th, 2008 Cmag08 says:

I think it has some great potential...and if it does good...it could perhaps...spread this sport even further

all the reviews are saying

On March 13th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

all the reviews are saying the actors suck. the 2 man guys are from the oc and a daytime soap opera. 2 things i hate...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

Just wait...i think it will

On March 13th, 2008 Cmag08 says:

Just wait...i think it will do surprisingly well for the type of movie

alright jeff wadlow, i'll be

On March 13th, 2008 iamphoenix says:

alright jeff wadlow, i'll be patient...

Underboss MMAfia

Head of the West Coast Family

This movie has nothing to do

On March 13th, 2008 KingLev says:

This movie has nothing to do with mixed martial arts. It's the same old new kid comes to school, hot girl gets his attention, hot girl's boyfriend gets pissed kicks new boys ass, new boy learns how to fight and gets revenge, new boy slips it in hot girl.

Godfather and all-around Mafia Aficionado

Co-Founder of The MMAFIA

Head of the East Coast